The Three Gorges Dam encountered an unprecedented challenge to question the question behind hydropower investment

August 20, 2010, Yichang. After the Three Gorges Group experienced the biggest flood peak since the construction of a dam, Cao Guangjing, chairman and party leader of the Three Gorges Group, who was relieved from the whirlpool, received an exclusive report from the “Energy” magazine reporter in his office. Interview.

After successfully intercepting the biggest flood in this century, the Three Gorges Dam encountered an unprecedented “flood peak”. Since July, Cao Guangjing himself and the Three Gorges Group Company he headed have fallen into the center of media and public suspicion:

What is the ability of the Three Gorges Dam to withstand flooding?

—— Is the frequent geological disaster this year related to the Three Gorges Dam?

——How to solve the silt deposition problem in the reservoir area?

Behind the controversial world's largest dam in the Three Gorges area is the Three Gorges Corporation, which is the foundation of the foundation and the low-key sneak. The largest domestic listed company for hydropower, China Yangtze Power [7.84-0.63%] Co., Ltd. (Yangtze Power, stock code: 600900), due to its long-sleeved dance in the capital market, has brought huge profits for thermal power companies. Constrained by coal prices, Changjiang Electric's profit margins have been as high as 40% at the time of losses, and it has maintained tens of billions of cash flow year round.

This enabled the Three Gorges Group to spare its capacity to step out of the dam, extend to the Yangtze River basin, and even overseas. In addition to its main business in hydropower, its strategic intent to build a “world-class clean energy group” has also been revealed – a high-profile approach to offshore wind power, and through the merger of China Water Investment Group, it became the largest equity shareholder of Goldwind [19.24-0.10%]. .

Since the official establishment of the China Three Gorges Corporation in 1993, the first general manager, Lu Youyi, had spent 10 years presiding over the construction of the project. His next term, Li Yongan, completed the company’s overall listing and left a beautiful financial report. Today, the relay baton passed to Cao Guangjing.

The 46-year-old Cao Guangjing is a student of Zouping in Shandong. When he graduated from the university at the age of 21, he came to the Three Gorges. The best time of his life is related to the Three Gorges. Can the young Marshal lead the successful transformation of the Three Gorges Corporation into a world-class clean energy group?

Fight upstream

[Through 2020, if the four power stations on the Jinsha River are completed, the total installed capacity of the Three Gorges Corporation will exceed 60 million kilowatts. In the field of hydropower development in the Yangtze River, the Three Gorges will sit steadily. "The Three Gorges is to do large hydropower." Cao Guangjing said. 】

On August 19, the Three Gorges Dam between the two flood peaks was silent. The two hydropower stations under construction at Xiluodu and Xiangjiaba in the lower reaches of the Jinsha River were warm and vociferous.

As an important project for the large-scale development of the western region and as a backbone project for the transmission of electricity from the west to the east, these two power stations are less affected by the controversy over the Jinsha River hydropower project. According to the data provided by the Three Gorges Project Xiluodu Hydropower Station, “2010 is the first peak construction year for dam concrete placement. Jinjie’s electromechanical embedded parts and unit installations have entered the peak stage of installation. The reservoir project will be fully launched and the power production preparations will be fully implemented. Start," Xiangjiaba is similar to them, and both are planned to be completed in 2015.

"Now the main building troops are going to the Jinsha River." An interview with Yichang, a staff member of the Three Gorges Group said. After the flood season, the company’s main leaders are also planning to visit the Jinsha River. At the junction of Sichuan and Yunnan, the terrain is rugged. From Yichang, where the group company is located, to the nearest Xiangjiaba, plus aircraft and cars, it takes at least three or four days to get back and forth.

Xiluodu Hydropower Station has an installed capacity of 12.6 million kilowatts, which is equivalent to the second-ranked Itaipu Power Plant in Brazil. Xiangjiaba has an installed capacity of 6 million kilowatts, ranking the tenth in the world, plus Wudongde and Baihetan. By 2020, If the four power stations on the Jinsha River are completed, the total installed capacity of the Three Gorges Corporation will exceed 60 million kilowatts. This is still less than the five major power groups, but it is already close behind, and it is a clean, low-cost hydropower.

However, the five major power groups have not been idle - in the current hydropower map, the five major power companies have divided up the upper reaches of the Jinsha River, the Dadu River, the Lancang River, the upper reaches of the Yellow River, and the Guangxi Red River Basin. Guodian Group's hydropower development goals are most clear and high-profile. Its general manager Zhu Yongzhe pointed out at the company meeting that hydropower development has no end, and it must fully seize the hydropower resources. It has planned 22 cascade power stations in the Dadu River with a total installed capacity of 23.4 million kilowatts. Datang Group's hydropower installed capacity has reached 14.5 million kilowatts, and Huaneng’s goal is to exceed 40 million kilowatts by 2020.

Wu Jiang, Research Office of the State Electricity Regulatory Commission estimated that the indicators for assessing renewable energy in the future should be electricity generation capacity rather than installed capacity. Compared with unstable wind power and photovoltaics, hydropower has a large scale of power generation and high utilization hours, which is an important battleground for structural adjustment.

Hydropower projects that were once suspended due to social disputes have recently restarted. The National Energy Administration announced that the new energy industry development plan has been approved by the National Development and Reform Commission and will be reported to the State Council. Among them, hydropower will account for 9%-10% of the 15% non-fossil energy target by 2020, and the total installed capacity will reach 380 million kilowatts. Since the construction period of large-scale hydropower projects is as long as 6-8 years, if the approval process is not accelerated in recent years, the goal of installing 380 million kilowatts will not be easy to achieve, and the target of 15% non-fossil energy will also be affected.

In order to compete for resources and share more, the five major power companies even deployed in-depth deployment of troops, looking for the acquisition of small and medium-sized hydropower. According to relevant sources, they even lowered their positions and demanded a reduction from 100,000 kilowatts to 50,000 kilowatts. The scope of concern has also expanded from existing power plants to projects that have not yet been completed.

Although the enemy is still ringing, but in the field of hydropower, the Three Gorges still sit steadily. "The Three Gorges is to do large hydropower." Cao Guangjing said that the completion of several projects is the largest in the country, and the rankings in the world are also very high.

It is worth mentioning that, unlike the Three Gorges flood control, power generation, navigation and other complex functions, the four main power stations of the Jinsha River are all generating electricity.

“If there is further success in UHV power transmission in the future, there will be no further breakthrough in the development of renewable energy. It is estimated that hydropower development in Tibet will be on the agenda.” Cao Guangjing believes that domestic concerns may turn to Tibet after 10 years.

Layout overseas

[With the help of China Hydro, the goal of the Three Gorges is that overseas operations will account for 1/3 of the company's profits in the future. In this competition leading overseas, Cao Guangjing believes that the brand of the Three Gorges is an advantage. “The largest typical case in the world is here, and it will undoubtedly have a great impact.” 】

After a round of water sports, the domestic water resources that can be developed basically delineate the sphere of influence, and the competition flows directly along the waters of the southwest river and even extends to Southeast Asia.

Recently, two units of the Lao Nanli Hydroelectric Power Station, which was incorporated into the China Three Gorges Corporation's China Water Power Foreign Power Company (hereinafter referred to as “China Power”), were formally put into commercial operation and became the first overseas project to be put into production in the Three Gorges Project. This project is small, only 100,000 kilowatts, but the BOT (build-operate-transfer) model was adopted for the first time. According to the agreement, Sanxia Company has the right to operate the project for 30 years and enjoys benefits during the period.

Previously, the first overseas project of the Three Gorges Corporation and the Muru Hydropower Project in Malaysia had experimented with the EPC contract method. At the end of 2008, shortly after the start of the project, China National Hydroelectric Power Company merged into the Three Gorges Group, and it has since become the platform for the Three Gorges to go to sea.

China Water Power International has nearly 50 years of experience in overseas projects and has accumulated a lot of resources, but it is seeking a transformation. "From a project-oriented project to a project-oriented investment project, track conditions for a more mature investment project and actively expand the overseas hydropower market." Cao Guangjing believes that the China Hydropower Front-End Platform plus the Three Gorges technical funds will do the rear support and complement each other's advantages. After the cooperation between the two sides, they signed a large sum of $800 million in Sudan, and the Three Gorges sent their backbones to support them.

A long-term cooperative market for China Hydro is Pakistan. After cooperating with the Three Gorges Project, it immediately acquired the 1.1 million kilowatt-hour Kohala hydropower development rights. Last year, the President of Pakistan visited the Three Gorges on two occasions, Pakistan’s General Administration of Water Power and Three Gorges Group signed a memorandum of understanding on cooperation in hydropower projects.

"Pakistan has more than 40 million kilowatts of hydropower reserves. If the investment is settled, it will be a major breakthrough for the Three Gorges Group's 'going out' strategy," said a Three Gorges source.

Overseas projects are only one direction of the Three Gorges. With the completion of the Three Gorges hydropower development, Three Gorges Group, with its handful of billions of cash in hand, must find new investment directions for these funds and solve the company's growth issues.

But this is not the exclusive story of the Three Gorges Group. It was Huaneng that first launched overseas hydropower development. Its first-grade hydropower station developed in Ruilijiang, Myanmar, was put into operation in May of last year with a total installed capacity of 600,000 kilowatts and a designed annual power generation of 4 billion kwh.

The project was once caused by the shortage of funds in Myanmar, so Huaneng joined two other Chinese companies to invest 2.96 billion yuan to enter. 85% of the electricity revenue enables Huaneng to achieve profitability in the year. According to the division of national hydropower forces, the next step of the Three Gorges project will be to develop four major hydropower stations downstream of the Jinsha River in China. While foreign countries will focus on the layout of Southeast Asia, Africa and other regions.

Hydroelectric expert Zhang Boting once told the media that hydropower resources in Southeast Asian countries are abundant, but there is a shortage of funds and the level of development is backward. This is an opportunity for Chinese power companies to enter [1.69-0.59%]. In fact, China has participated in the development of many international hydropower projects, but all of them are Chinese hydropower construction groups and other engineering contractors. Recently, the power groups have begun to participate in investment and learn to be owners.

Although CPI has entered Myanmar in late hours, it has acquired the development rights of cascade hydropower stations in the upper reaches of the Yijiang River Basin. It is estimated that the total installed investment capacity will be 20 million kilowatts. This year it will be completed in three batches by 2024. Huadian took a different approach and, in addition to building power stations, also responsible for the operation and maintenance of more than 10 power plants in Southeast Asian countries.

In addition, Huaneng's power station project even began to send power back to China. Zhang Boting proposed that this can help China’s western power transmission to the east through China Southern Power Grid.

In this competition leading overseas, Cao Guangjing believes that the Three Gorges brand is an advantage. “The largest typical case in the world is here. It will undoubtedly be very influential. Many heads of state from Southeast Asia and Africa came to the Three Gorges to understand everything at a glance. The facts speak louder than words.”

The long-term experience of China Hydro is the sound guarantee for the Three Gorges to go to sea. The political situation in Laos is relatively stable compared with Myanmar, where other power groups are most concentrated. Pakistan is a market that has been deeply plowed for 30 years by China Hydro, and the contracted projects currently under construction amount to a total of US$1 billion.

According to the “21st Century Business Herald” report, Datang Power had encountered an incident in Myanmar in which independent armed forces claimed money. The political instability has made the five power groups more cautious about investing in Southeast Asia. As the road to exploration deepens, the economy also places greater emphasis on profitability.

With China Hydro, Cao Guangjing's expectation is that overseas operations will account for 1/3 of the Three Gorges' profits in the future.

A person from the Planning and Development Department of the Three Gorges Group admitted that “The advantages of the Three Gorges Corporation are that the main business is outstanding, the assets are excellent, and the debt ratio is low, while the deficiency is a small market share, and the proportion of power generation in the country is only about 2%. Therefore, In the past few years, the Group has re-positioned its strategic position and will turn the development of hydropower into a comprehensive clean energy group. Now that it has reached the stage of breakthrough development of clean energy, we cannot miss the opportunity and we must seize the opportunity."

Create a Three Gorges?

[In addition to strengthening its main business, the Three Gorges Group enters wind power, nuclear power, and other fields through mergers and acquisitions, equity participation and other means. In this overheated field, can the Three Gorges come from behind? 】

In addition to its main business, the Three Gorges Group has a strategic layout for the construction of a comprehensive clean energy group and has entered into wind power, photovoltaic and nuclear power fields through various means such as mergers and acquisitions and share participation. In fact, almost all electric power central enterprises are seizing new energy markets. Why should the Three Gorges Company compete with them? In this overheated new energy field, what is the Three Gorges hydropower development company doing?

In 2006, the Three Gorges Group established the Yangtze New Energy Development Company, focusing on offshore wind power. In recent years, the company has successively developed and put into operation the 50 thousand kilowatt wind power project in Cixi, Zhejiang, and 200,000 kilowatts of wind power and other new energy projects in Xiangshui, Jiangsu, but the action is not too large and has not attracted attention in the building of wind power in full swing.

Cao Guangjing frankly stated that the Three Gorges Group's entry into the new energy business area was indeed late and its development was slow. This was related to the Group’s main hydropower and lack of wind power professionals.

The Three Gorges Group frequently uses mergers and acquisitions to redouble its strengths and expand space. At the same time as the merger with China National Hydroelectric Power, China Three Gorges Group and China Water Resources Investment Group (hereinafter referred to as "China Water Investment") merged and reorganized, obtained a batch of wind power assets, and even proposed to cultivate wind power into a second pillar industry.

Zhongshui Investment Co., Ltd. was one of the companies that entered the field of wind power earlier and began to develop wind farms in 2003. In December 2006, the first wind farm invested and developed by the company—the first unit of Jilin Baicheng Wind Farm Phase I—was successfully connected to the grid for power generation. Subsequently, the projects in Liaoning and Inner Mongolia were successively connected to the grid. Currently under construction projects in the Northeast, Inner Mongolia, Xinjiang, Qinghai, etc., reserves of renewable development capacity of about 11 million kilowatts.

In July of this year, China Water Investment changed its name to China Three Gorges New Energy Company, becoming the main force for the Group's development of new energy. Shortly afterwards, Sanxia New Energy won a 200,000-kilowatt project in the 10 million-kilowatt wind power base in Hami, Xinjiang. Cao Guangjing proposed that in order to achieve the overall market within 3-5 years, wind power installed capacity will exceed 20 million kilowatts by 2020.

However, the new energy sector of the five major power groups has been seeking listings since the end of last year. “And the performance is remarkable.” Zhang Shuai, a new energy analyst at Guojin Securities [17.272.19%] said. For example, there are more than 10 years of experience in wind power, Guodian Power, which has successfully listed its Longyuan Power [8.11-1.34%], and Datang New Energy Co., Ltd., which has a good wind power grid connection and immediately lands on the H shares. In addition, several other projects in hand, the same kind of capital market has also been laid ahead of schedule, to seize the initiative.

Although it was late and there were few installations, Cao Guangjing still wanted to catch up with the whole industry to enter wind power: “We can achieve 1 million this year and we will soon catch up in the next few years.” Facing most land-based high-quality resources, The reality of walking, Cao Guangjing wants to break through the sea. “Now we have a project in Jiangsu offshore that is almost comparable to research. It is estimated that it will rise at the end of the year. The first phase is 200,000 kilowatts.”

Jiangsu Province boasts one of the seven million-million-kilowatt wind power bases in the country, and is the only offshore wind power base. It is determined to create the “Three Gorges at Sea”. The Three Gorges Group has frequent contact with Jiangsu Province and regards it as a strategic priority. This is a feast that is still in planning, but it may also be another suction pool.

In the view of Cao Guangjing, Sanxia New Energy has a special industrial chain advantage. It is the largest equity holder of Goldwind Technology [19.24-0.10%]. At present, the domestic wind power market still faces serious equipment quality problems. Goldwind Technology is the leader of the whole machine and buys the German design team to continuously improve the quality. In addition, it also controls and participates in several accessories companies and has advantages in manufacturing wind power equipment.

Nuclear power is also an area in which the Three Gorges “very want to enter”, but suffers from no license. At present, it is only a share of the China Nuclear Power Plant’s Taohua River project and China National Nuclear Power’s nuclear power. And once it was rumors that the cash acquisition of China General Nuclear Power, no further.

No matter how reluctant the five major power groups are to be conceded and aggressive, the Three Gorges Group has only one killer, which is abundant cash flow.

In 2003, after the first batch of generating units of the Three Gorges generated electricity, they sold the units to listed company Changjiang Power [7.84-0.63%]. The funds raised were used to register Jinsha River Co., Ltd. as the national capital, and rolled out the rolling development. The prologue of the Jinsha River. In May 2009, the Three Gorges Group announced that it will inject the remaining 18 units into Yangtze Power at a price of 107.5 billion yuan.

The Three Gorges Corporation’s profitability has become stronger and stronger, and there is no need to wait for all engineering investment to recover before new projects can be developed. “As long as some power stations are put into operation successfully, they will be listed in listed companies. This model is very good and there is no shortage of cash flow,” said Cao Guangjing. The future of the Jinsha River power generation project will follow suit.

Keeping the high-quality and low-cost hydropower resources, the Three Gorges Group’s profit reached 12.6 billion last year, and the profit rate was as high as 40%. As there is no historical burden, its asset-liability ratio is only 30%. “The debt ratio of thermal power plants is basically above 80%.” Cao Guangjing believes that the Three Gorges, which holds a large amount of cash flow, is still lacking in development at this stage.

With sufficient cash, Changjiang Power is quite unique in its capital operations. In 2004, Yangtze River Power, which had been listed for one year, completed its equity investment in China Construction Bank [4.71-0.42%], which brought substantial benefits three years later. In addition, Yangtze Power also holds shares of major listed banks and shares of unlisted banks. Last year, Yangtze Power obtained 1.1 billion investment income through the sale of shares.

Yangtze Power has become a dark horse in the financial sector. On March 26, 2008, China Yangtze Power Co., Ltd. was established solely to establish Beijing Changdian Innovation Investment Company. All investment fields, as long as they are profitable, will be included in the investment scope.

Zhang Long, Chief Electric Analyst of Essence Securities, believes that there are no special reasons for the Three Gorges to enter new energy and play new shares, relying mainly on cash flow advantages.

However, the rule of the Yangtze River Power is not to enter the secondary market stocks, all as promoters, or through strategic placement of shares, the risk is very low. Speaking of the relationship between industry and finance, Cao Guangjing said: "It is definitely the main business, because we have ample funds, we must use it in the control of risk."

In addition to financial investment, the Three Gorges Group has also made a number of strategic investments related to business layout, such as holdings of Hubei Energy, Guangzhou Holdings [6.38-0.62%], Shanghai Electric Power [4.29-0.23%] and other local energy companies. Among them, Hubei Energy manages the Qingjiang River Basin and is in line with the strategic objectives of the Three Gorges to develop the Yangtze River. The Three Gorges has helped them to restructure and backdoor listing. "We are a trilogy, investment injection, restructuring and reorganization, and then listed, all on schedule." Cao Guangjing said that this operation is very representative, after the listing of value-added will double, bring into the management of cooperation is worth promoting.

Hydropower is still relying on the weather to eat, and the amount of water affects the efficiency of power generation. Changjiang Power's equity assets accounted for 20% to 30% of the total assets, which has always played a role in smoothing the fluctuation of the main industry.

Last September, China's Three Gorges Corporation officially changed its name to China's Three Gorges Corporation. The Three Gorges Group entered a new phase, the so-called “post-Three Gorges Era”. It is also at this 2010 group company work meeting that was announced by the deputy minister of the Central Organization Department that Chairman Cao Guangjing and General Manager Chen Fei, the two deputy leaders clearly put forward the strategic goal of building a first-class large-scale clean energy group.

Successively experienced the biggest flood peak since the construction of the Three Gorges Dam, and in the world's doubtful eyes, the answer given by the Three Gorges is undoubtedly satisfactory. But for the young Yangtze Three Gorges Group and the young Cao Guangjing, the real test is only just beginning.

Cao Guangjing: River Basin Management Is a Big Problem

After experiencing the largest flood peak since the construction of the dam, the journalist conducted a dialogue with Cao Guangjing, chairman of the Three Gorges Corporation, on the flood control and impoundment of the Three Gorges Dam and the unified management of hydropower development in the Yangtze River Basin.

Text|Reporter Wang Rui

>>> Flood protection and impoundment

"Energy": What do you think of the performance of the Three Gorges Dam in this year's flood season?

Cao Guangjing: The outside world has always had some doubts about the Three Gorges. How much can it play after it was repaired? The quality of how? You can't just say it yourself. Lu Zonghe is the constructor of the project and personally witnessed and witnessed the project construction process. We are very confident in what we do. The flood control capability of the Three Gorges is very strong. This year, the peak of 70,000 cubic meters per second is between the two decades in a decade. The once-in-a-decade flow was 66,000, and once in twenty years it was 72,300. The Three Gorges Dam had no problem in flooding once every 100 years.

Before the arrival of the flood peak, there is a forecast period. We are rolling forecasts and the more accurate we are. We have a Ladder Center that analyzes the situation of upstream waters, weather conditions, and maintains close consultation with the General Defense Forces of the Yangtze River and the National Defense. The control of the flow should be controlled, how long the water level process will last, when it is expected to reach a peak, and how much the upstream water level will reach. Through continuous forecasting and consultation, these dynamic conditions are under our control. We forecast that there will soon be a big flood, we are fully prepared for ourselves, and then we will come up with a complete solution.

"Energy": What is the time for water storage reported by China Three Gorges Corporation this year? Will you store water in advance?

Cao Guangjing: We have applied for storage on September 10 this year. We haven’t approved it yet, but we have reached a broad consensus. The quality inspection expert group of the Three Gorges passed the inquiry and demonstration and probably affirmed this result.

Why reserve water in advance? One of the reasons for this is that in September and October, there was less water in the upper reaches of the Yangtze River than in the past, especially in October, a quarter less. This is mainly due to the construction of many small water conservancy facilities in the upper reaches. These reservoirs were all filled in October. In the past two years, we have been doing projects that hope to be able to store water in advance. There have been very detailed and feasible arguments, and a lot of research has been done on the issues involved. support.

"Energy": What are the changes in the various conditions of the Yangtze River compared with the demonstration period?

Cao Guangjing: Since the impoundment of water in 2003, we have been doing flood control safety and sediment analysis, and we are also concerned about changes in the hydrological situation of the Yangtze River. We believe that it is not very reasonable to maintain the same water level throughout the flood season. For example, July and August are the main flood seasons. The frequency of floods is high, peak flood flows are high, and June and September are weaker. The flood duration is not so long. From the point of view of flood control security, one concept cannot be used, and one line cannot be used.

In terms of sediment, we have a very large hydrological sediment observation program and spent hundreds of millions of dollars to observe changes in water levels and sediments in the upper and lower reaches of the Yangtze River after the impoundment. In the past, the argumentation was paper. After all, how was the water after the impoundment must be actually observed, analyzed, and verified? After the impoundment of this plan, from the upstream to the downstream, from the main stream to the tributaries, some important tributaries were observed, and it was found that the amount of sediment was greatly reduced. On the basis of full demonstration, we propose that the sediment issue has not already constituted a factor that restricts the impoundment of the Three Gorges at this stage.

"Energy": The Three Gorges Reservoir has not yet reached a test level of 175 meters. Does this show that there are contradictions between different functions such as flood prevention and power generation? How is your company balanced?

Cao Guangjing: The Three Gorges Project puts flood prevention first, and functions such as flood prevention, drought relief, power generation, and shipping must be taken into consideration. This is a standard procedure. In principle, the principle of reservoir dispatch is determined. For example, from June to October, the water level should be about 145 meters, and prepare for flood control. Afterwards, gradually raise the water level to 175 meters, and the water level will slowly decline in December. The water level in the downstream Yichang Port should be ensured during the fall process to ensure shipping.

If it encounters floods, it will accept the instructions of the National Defense General and the Changjiang River Defense, request that the water stop on the barrier, and discharge the flood if required. For example, last year's drought in the lower reaches of the river had to relieve the release of water. In addition to these big rules, there are some details to coordinate. For example, the supply and demand of the power grid must be balanced at all times, or the fluctuation range is very small, and the system can be stable. Therefore, we have to switch on and off, and we have to coordinate with the grid. The demand of the power grid changes at any time, so there must be a certain amount of advance, consult with him, and adjust the load in a short period of time.

>>>Calling for watershed management

“Energy”: Now that there are many power stations under construction on the Jinsha River, will the accumulation of water at the same time cause water grabs?

Cao Guangjing: Not only the Jinsha River, but also the Jialing River, the Lancang River, the Lancang River, the Dadu River, and the Wujiang River. The water in the Jinsha River accounts for almost one third of this area. After all the power stations on these rivers have been built, the water resources of the entire Yangtze River basin must be uniformly dispatched. If everybody comes to water in September and October, there will be no water in the Three Gorges. This is a big problem in the future, and it is also a big problem. It needs an authoritative organization that coordinates and coordinates this matter, or the country has a rule to guarantee. No river basin in the world has such a large number of power stations like the upper reaches of the Yangtze River basin. It is so complicated because there are too many tributaries and there are too many water flows containing sediment. If there is no coordination, the future will be very big.

"Energy": There has always been mention of basin-level integrated management. Can it be implemented at present in China?

Cao Guangjing: I have called for this for many years and many people have already realized this problem. There is no action for the time being, but sooner or later this problem will become very sharp one day.

In fact, the issue of integrated basin management in October has been highlighted. Why do we say that water is stored in advance? The average annual flow in October was 19,600 cubic meters per second. The average of the past six years is probably less than 16,000. The reduction is very large. But from January to April, this flow was increased. What does this mean? That is, those power stations all stored water in October, gradually draining these waters during the dry season. Therefore, the total flow of the entire Yangtze River decreased slightly during the year, which was not very obvious, but the decrease in October was very obvious.

“Energy”: Now that the Three Gorges and Gezhouba [9.93-1.19%] are unified in scheduling, will the four power stations in the lower reaches of the Jinsha River be jointly planned after the completion of the project? Does Sanxia Company take the lead in this area? How difficult is it to achieve unified management?

Cao Guangjing: Yes, this should be something that we can do on our own, but we do not have as many power stations as the mainstream tributaries of the Yangtze River basin. Our share is not high enough. There is a basin management bureau like Tennessee in the United States, but it is also a relatively simple river basin and the Yangtze River basin is too big. There are many power stations, many provinces involved, many stakeholders, and there are many main development bodies in different river basins. But as long as I want to do it, I don't think it's that difficult.